[Edge-computing] Edge-computing Digest, Vol 8, Issue 25
Jess Lampe
jess.lampe at gmail.com
Wed Jun 20 19:54:17 UTC 2018
Hi Gergely,
TK is a place holder text for "more to come".
It's a letter pairing in english that is so infrequent you can search TK
and not find any other words in a document.
On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 1:49 AM <edge-computing-request at lists.openstack.org>
wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Use Cases (Jess Lampe)
> 2. [Use Cases]: Some comments / questions
> (Csatari, Gergely (Nokia - HU/Budapest))
> 3. Re: 答复: 答复: Clarification_of_Requirements
> (Csatari, Gergely (Nokia - HU/Budapest))
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 21:58:09 -0700
> From: Jess Lampe <jess.lampe at gmail.com>
> To: "edge-computing at lists.openstack.org"
> <edge-computing at lists.openstack.org>
> Subject: [Edge-computing] Use Cases
> Message-ID:
> <CAM01PEX=
> uLgdiJq5N23dLBWf881+v689iVcD2XoWAuo3FneaXA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> *Proposed Template*
> To see the proposed layout, go to the Use Cases Page.
> <https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Edge_Computing_Group/Use_Cases>
>
> - Near the top of the page you will find the layout in markup.
> - Below the template, the use cases that existed already were converted
> into the template.
> - At the bottom, please find the requirements that were captured at the
> Dublin event. I moved them to this Use Case page to centralize use cases
> and requirements.
>
> *Feedback? *
> As requested in the Monday and Tuesday meetings, we are soliciting feedback
> on the template format.
>
> Does it help sufficiently describe possible use cases? Does it help with
> mapping to requirements?
>
> I've created an etherpad to collect feedback.
> https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/feedback_on_template
>
> Thanks!
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> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 07:56:52 +0000
> From: "Csatari, Gergely (Nokia - HU/Budapest)"
> <gergely.csatari at nokia.com>
> To: "edge-computing at lists.openstack.org"
> <edge-computing at lists.openstack.org>
> Subject: [Edge-computing] [Use Cases]: Some comments / questions
> Message-ID:
> <
> AM5PR0701MB23060860C2C823CFF546B305E1770 at AM5PR0701MB2306.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi,
>
> Some comments and questions to
> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Edge_Computing_Group/Use_Cases
>
>
> * (Can't we have a wiki with quick comment capabilities?)
> * What is TK?
> * Requirements: This is a section what is still under review in the
> Dublin PTG Discussion notes [1<
> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OpenStack_Edge_Discussions_Dublin_PTG#Requirements%7C>].
> I will mirror the correction of the comments to here also, but I keep
> updating the original version until the end of the reviews. After the
> review finished we can remove the content from the original location and
> maintain it here.
>
> [1]:
> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OpenStack_Edge_Discussions_Dublin_PTG#Requirements%7C
>
> Br,
> Gerg0
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> ------------------------------
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> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 08:48:53 +0000
> From: "Csatari, Gergely (Nokia - HU/Budapest)"
> <gergely.csatari at nokia.com>
> To: Fu Qiao <fuqiao at chinamobile.com>, '赵奇慧'
> <zhaoqihui at chinamobile.com>, 'lebre.adrien' <lebre.adrien at free.fr>
> Cc: 'edge-computing' <edge-computing at lists.openstack.org>, 'paul-andre
> raymond' <paul-andre.raymond at b-yond.com>
> Subject: Re: [Edge-computing] 答复: 答复:
> Clarification_of_Requirements
> Message-ID:
> <
> AM5PR0701MB230662E4AF23BE59F46650F3E1770 at AM5PR0701MB2306.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi,
>
> Thanks for the comments.
>
> I’m not sure at all, that we follow the definitions from the whitepaper in
> the wiki 😊
>
> I referred your talk and the naming you user there becouse of the
> differences in the definitions.
>
> Going inline.
>
>
> From: Fu Qiao [mailto:fuqiao at chinamobile.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2018 4:12 AM
>
> Hi, all. I guess some more explanations for the China Mobile’s network
> should be added here.
> The definition for small and medium edge from the whitepaper actually is
> different from what we say about access/county/city. Our access level CO
> will include compute nodes of about ten more, with distance from the Base
> station of 10km, delay about 2ms, and bandwidth about 50GB.
>
> [G0]: Should I add 10 units to the maximum hardware specs part of the
> Small edge deployment option?
>
> Our county level CO includes tens of compute nodes, with distance of 50km,
> delay about 2.5ms, and bandwidth of about 100GB. City level CO will have
> hundreds of servers, with distance of more than 100km.
> I guess the small edge defined in the Whitepaper, with up to 1U, is
> somehow suitable for edge equipment at the customer site, and this is not
> actually discussed in my presentation.
>
>
> 发件人: 赵奇慧 [mailto:zhaoqihui at chinamobile.com]
> 发送时间: 2018年6月20日 10:03
>
> Hi Gergely,
>
> It's great that our data can help. But I think according the the previous
> definitions of small edge and medium edge, there should be a little
> modification here.
>
> For Small edge, the maximum hardware specs is up to 1 unit, which is
> similar to our Access-level DC/Edge TIC AP. For Mediun edge, the hardware
> spec varies from 2RU to 20RU, which is somehow like our County-level DC. So
> here is my suggestion:
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Small edge:
> · Number of instances (Edge TIC AP according to [6]<
> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OpenStack_Edge_Discussions_Dublin_PTG#cite_note-Edge_TIC:_Future_edge_cloud_for_China_Mobile-6>):
> depend on demands
> [G0]: Can we say 3000+ here in a paranthesis?
> · Distance from Base Station (Access-level DC according to [6]<
> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OpenStack_Edge_Discussions_Dublin_PTG#cite_note-Edge_TIC:_Future_edge_cloud_for_China_Mobile-6>):
> around 10km
> · E2E delay (from UE to site)(Access according to [6]<
> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OpenStack_Edge_Discussions_Dublin_PTG#cite_note-Edge_TIC:_Future_edge_cloud_for_China_Mobile-6>):
> 2 ms
> · Bandwith need (Access according to [6]<
> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OpenStack_Edge_Discussions_Dublin_PTG#cite_note-Edge_TIC:_Future_edge_cloud_for_China_Mobile-6>):
> 50 GB
>
> Medium edge:
> · Number of instances (Edge TIC County according to [6]<
> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OpenStack_Edge_Discussions_Dublin_PTG#cite_note-Edge_TIC:_Future_edge_cloud_for_China_Mobile-6>):
> 3000+
> · Distance from Base Station (Access-level DC according to [6]<
> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OpenStack_Edge_Discussions_Dublin_PTG#cite_note-Edge_TIC:_Future_edge_cloud_for_China_Mobile-6>):
> around 50km
> · E2E delay (from UE to site) (Access according to [6]<
> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OpenStack_Edge_Discussions_Dublin_PTG#cite_note-Edge_TIC:_Future_edge_cloud_for_China_Mobile-6>):
> less than 2.5 ms
> · Bandwith need (Access according to [6]<
> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OpenStack_Edge_Discussions_Dublin_PTG#cite_note-Edge_TIC:_Future_edge_cloud_for_China_Mobile-6>):
> 100GB
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> [G0]: I’ve updated these to the wiki.
>
> Thanks,
> Gerg0
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Qihui Zhao
> ________________________________
>
> China Mobile Research Institute
>
> Department of Network Technology
>
> 发件人: Csatari, Gergely (Nokia - HU/Budapest)<mailto:
> gergely.csatari at nokia.com>
> 时间: 2018/06/15(星期五)22:14
> 收件人: lebre.adrien<mailto:lebre.adrien at free.fr>;
> 抄送人: paul-andre raymond<mailto:paul-andre.raymond at b-yond.com
> >;edge-computing<mailto:edge-computing at lists.openstack.org>;
> 主题: Re: [Edge-computing] 答复: 答复: Clarification_of_Requirements
> Hi,
>
> I was thinking about the generic deployment specific requirements, like
> bandwiths and delays.
>
> I've added some of them from the CM presentation to
> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OpenStack_Edge_Discussions_Dublin_PTG#Small_edge
> and
> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OpenStack_Edge_Discussions_Dublin_PTG#Medium_edge
>
> Br,
> Gerg0
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lebre.adrien at free.fr<mailto:lebre.adrien at free.fr> [mailto:
> lebre.adrien at free.fr]
> Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2018 11:39 PM
> To: Csatari, Gergely (Nokia - HU/Budapest) <gergely.csatari at nokia.com
> <mailto:gergely.csatari at nokia.com>>
> Cc: Arkady Kanevsky <Arkady.Kanevsky at dell.com<mailto:
> Arkady.Kanevsky at dell.com>>; fuqiao at chinamobile.com<mailto:
> fuqiao at chinamobile.com>; paul-andre raymond <paul-andre.raymond at b-yond.com
> <mailto:paul-andre.raymond at b-yond.com>>;
> edge-computing at lists.openstack.org<mailto:
> edge-computing at lists.openstack.org>
> Subject: Re: [Edge-computing] 答复: 答复: Clarification of Requirements
>
> Hi all,
>
> Maybe we can try to prioritise the projects we want to investigate and
> then for each of them identify what are the missing elements/capabilities
> (one after the others)
>
> There are ongoing works on Keystone and Glance.
> Nova, Neutron could be the next ones because these 4 services would allow
> to deploy VM at the edge (and so containers inside VMs).
> Cinder will enable the use of remote attached volumes.
> Ironic can be useful later.
> etc..
>
> My two cents,
> Ad_ri3n_
>
> ----- Mail original -----
> > De: "Gergely Csatari (Nokia - HU/Budapest)"
> > <gergely.csatari at nokia.com<mailto:gergely.csatari at nokia.com>>
> > À: "Arkady Kanevsky" <Arkady.Kanevsky at dell.com<mailto:
> Arkady.Kanevsky at dell.com>>, fuqiao at chinamobile.com<mailto:
> fuqiao at chinamobile.com>, "paul-andre raymond"
> > <paul-andre.raymond at b-yond.com<mailto:paul-andre.raymond at b-yond.com>>,
> "lebre adrien"
> > <lebre.adrien at free.fr<mailto:lebre.adrien at free.fr>>,
> edge-computing at lists.openstack.org<mailto:
> edge-computing at lists.openstack.org>
> > Envoyé: Mercredi 13 Juin 2018 17:38:35
> > Objet: RE: [Edge-computing] 答复: 答复: Clarification of Requirements
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Somehow I have a feeling that these latency requirements are related
> > to all projects, this is why they should be documented in the
> > Deployment options section.
> >
> > Br,
> > Gerg0
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Arkady.Kanevsky at dell.com<mailto:Arkady.Kanevsky at dell.com> [mailto:
> Arkady.Kanevsky at dell.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2018 4:24 PM
> > To: Csatari, Gergely (Nokia - HU/Budapest)
> > <gergely.csatari at nokia.com<mailto:gergely.csatari at nokia.com>>;
> fuqiao at chinamobile.com<mailto:fuqiao at chinamobile.com>;
> > paul-andre.raymond at b-yond.com<mailto:paul-andre.raymond at b-yond.com>;
> lebre.adrien at free.fr<mailto:lebre.adrien at free.fr>;
> > edge-computing at lists.openstack.org<mailto:
> edge-computing at lists.openstack.org>
> > Subject: RE: [Edge-computing] 答复: 答复: Clarification of Requirements
> >
> > Gerg0,
> > I think these 3 projects are implied from the wiki requirements.
> > But it will be good to state projects that may need work explicitly.
> > Thanks,
> > Arkady
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Csatari, Gergely (Nokia - HU/Budapest)
> > [mailto:gergely.csatari at nokia.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2018 4:23 AM
> > To: Kanevsky, Arkady; fuqiao at chinamobile.com<mailto:
> fuqiao at chinamobile.com>;
> > paul-andre.raymond at b-yond.com<mailto:paul-andre.raymond at b-yond.com>;
> lebre.adrien at free.fr<mailto:lebre.adrien at free.fr>;
> > edge-computing at lists.openstack.org<mailto:
> edge-computing at lists.openstack.org>
> > Subject: RE: [Edge-computing] 答复: 答复: Clarification of Requirements
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Should we add these to the Deployment Scenarions section of the Dublin
> > wiki [1]?
> >
> > [1]:
> > https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OpenStack_Edge_Discussions_Dublin_PTG#<
> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OpenStack_Edge_Discussions_Dublin_PTG>
> > Deployment_Scenarios
> >
> > Br,
> > Gerg0
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Arkady.Kanevsky at dell.com<mailto:Arkady.Kanevsky at dell.com> [mailto:
> Arkady.Kanevsky at dell.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 4:49 PM
> > To: fuqiao at chinamobile.com<mailto:fuqiao at chinamobile.com>;
> paul-andre.raymond at b-yond.com<mailto:paul-andre.raymond at b-yond.com>;
> > lebre.adrien at free.fr<mailto:lebre.adrien at free.fr>;
> edge-computing at lists.openstack.org<mailto:
> edge-computing at lists.openstack.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Edge-computing] 答复: 答复: Clarification of Requirements
> >
> > It is more than just nova to keystone.
> > We also need to consider at least neutron, glance and cinder also.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Fu Qiao [mailto:fuqiao at chinamobile.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 8:21 AM
> > To: 'Paul-Andre Raymond'; lebre.adrien at free.fr<mailto:
> lebre.adrien at free.fr>;
> > edge-computing at lists.openstack.org<mailto:
> edge-computing at lists.openstack.org>
> > Subject: [Edge-computing] 答复: 答复: Clarification of Requirements
> >
> > Yes, 5ms is one way. But this is an assumption based on the network
> > from China Mobile. The latency will be defer if you have different
> > distance, but the calculation method is the same apparently.
> >
> > -----邮件原件-----
> > 发件人: Paul-Andre Raymond [mailto:paul-andre.raymond at b-yond.com]
> > 发送时间: 2018年6月6日 21:19
> > 收件人: Fu Qiao <fuqiao at chinamobile.com<mailto:fuqiao at chinamobile.com>>;
> lebre.adrien at free.fr<mailto:lebre.adrien at free.fr>;
> > edge-computing at lists.openstack.org<mailto:
> edge-computing at lists.openstack.org>
> > 主题: Re: [Edge-computing] 答复: Clarification of Requirements
> >
> > Should we separate two kinds of latency requirements:
> > - Federation Latency: i.e Central Keystone to Local Keystone
> > - API latency: i.e. Edge Nova to local Keystone
> >
> > Should we measure it one way or Round Trip? I assume the 5ms below is
> > one way.
> >
> >
> > Paul-André
> > --
> >
> >
> > On 6/6/18, 5:13 AM, "Fu Qiao" <fuqiao at chinamobile.com<mailto:
> fuqiao at chinamobile.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Thank you Adrien. I was just about the reply with more details.
> >
> > About latency, this as I understand is actually decided mostly by
> > the distance of the distributed cloud. So it actually decided by
> > where exactly the location Keystone would like to deploy, and
> > what is the distance expectation. Like what I explain in my
> > presentation, we plan to have keystone sitting in the city level
> > to control multi cloud in counties, and the latency will be
> > around 5ms. But again this is a certain situation for China
> > Mobile. And other operators may make the conlusion on a
> > different structure. Another thing we can do is work on
> > simulation and testing and see what kind of latency the current
> > keystone federation scheme can tolerant. This will help the
> > operators to work out there structure as well.
> >
> > About bandwidth, the impression for me is we could expect more
> > than 50GB of bandwidth for edge for 5G. And I think that is
> > enough for most of the app.
> >
> > Hope this will help.
> >
> > -----邮件原件-----
> > 发件人: lebre.adrien at free.fr<mailto:lebre.adrien at free.fr> [mailto:
> lebre.adrien at free.fr]
> > 发送时间: 2018年6月6日 15:25
> > 收件人: edge-computing at lists.openstack.org<mailto:
> edge-computing at lists.openstack.org>
> > 主题: Re: [Edge-computing] Clarification of Requirements
> >
> > It is rather difficult to give numbers because there are several
> > use-cases.
> > However, a good starting point can be to give a look to the
> > presentation Qiao Fu gave during the Vancouver summit:
> >
> https://www.openstack.org/videos/vancouver-2018/edge-tic-future-edge-cloud-for-china-mobile
> > There is a lot of numbers regarding the infrastructure China
> > Mobile is envisioning.
> >
> > Hope this helps.
> > ad_ri3n_
> > PS: I cannot attend the meeting yesterday unfortunately but I'm
> > wondering whether the disconnection aspects have been discussed
> > (i.e. the fact that one site can be completely isolated for a
> > certain period of time due to network disconnections).
> >
> > ----- Mail original -----
> > > De: "Jess Lampe" <jess.lampe at gmail.com<mailto:jess.lampe at gmail.com>>
> > > À: edge-computing at lists.openstack.org<mailto:
> edge-computing at lists.openstack.org>
> > > Envoyé: Mercredi 6 Juin 2018 07:00:31
> > > Objet: [Edge-computing] Clarification of Requirements
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > During the call today, members of the Glance and Keystone teams
> > > requested clarity on the following areas:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > * Latency - what are the specific latency requirements that
> > > need
> > > to be met?
> > > * Bandwidth towards the edge - similarly, what are the
> > > limitations of bandwidth at the edge that we can expect?
> > > * Security - what are the specific security considerations
> > > that
> > > need to be?
> > >
> > >
> > > Please feel free to A.) contribute additional areas that need
> > > clarifying B.) clarify any of the added.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Edge-computing mailing list
> > > Edge-computing at lists.openstack.org<mailto:
> Edge-computing at lists.openstack.org>
> > > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/edge-computing
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Edge-computing mailing list
> > Edge-computing at lists.openstack.org<mailto:
> Edge-computing at lists.openstack.org>
> > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/edge-computing
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Edge-computing mailing list
> > Edge-computing at lists.openstack.org<mailto:
> Edge-computing at lists.openstack.org>
> > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/edge-computing
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Edge-computing mailing list
> > Edge-computing at lists.openstack.org<mailto:
> Edge-computing at lists.openstack.org>
> > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/edge-computing
> > _______________________________________________
> > Edge-computing mailing list
> > Edge-computing at lists.openstack.org<mailto:
> Edge-computing at lists.openstack.org>
> > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/edge-computing
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Edge-computing mailing list
> Edge-computing at lists.openstack.org<mailto:
> Edge-computing at lists.openstack.org>
> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/edge-computing
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